Enlightenment

01 Apr 2001, 02:24:49 PM 

Fellow seekers of enlightenment:

What exactly is the nature of the enlightenment we seek?. Here is another fuzzy area in understanding where a little exploration may benefit us in our inner journey. We find the term, "E", used more frequently in Eastern esoteric literature than Western but the fuzzy goal of enlightenment remains in both. Can you help with some accurate analysis of this familiar but ill-ly defined state of being? I propose the following questions, hoping they will stimulate some enlightened answers. Pun intended.

Is E (enlightenment) something we accomplish or attain, and if so, by what methods? Or is it a bestowal, and for what reasons do you suppose and what conditions existing for it to happen? In your opinion, would being enlightened tend to eliminate having sex, eating meat, drinking alcohol or smoking dope, gambling or being a Liberal? Rock and roll?? Do you think E occurs in increments or all at once? Your own words, please.

I would like to term you all as "apprentice enlightenees." Joseph

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> Is E (enlightenment) something we accomplish or attain, and if so, by what methods?

Do what you WANT to do.

> Or is it a bestowal, and for what reasons do you suppose and what conditions existing for it to happen?

It is a process. You are not the processor. You are the process-ee. Conditions require the the subject of the work achieve sufficient compression to achieve ignition (K19).

> In your opinion, would being enlightened tend to eliminate having sex,  eating meat, drinking alcohol or smoking dope, gambling or being a  Liberal? Rock and roll??

As nothing is inimical to man (and woman), the intention is the determiner of the quality of the action. Also since "ends" and "means" are the same, these activities would have a different quality and impact when practiced by an en-LIGHT-ened (light-filled) (K19) individual.

> Do you think E occurs in increments or all at once? Your own words, please.

Compression takes time. Ignition happens all at once.

RL

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> Enlightenment would seem to be the full realization of our Selfhood through  first hand experience called cosmic consciousness. The purpose--evolution--  and the method--do what you want--is exactly what we are impelled to do.  Seems obvious, as what we are continuously involved in.

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Good thoughts I can't disagree with but this seems to me mostly to replace the question "What is enlightenment?" with "What is cosmic consciousness?" Having read Bucke on the subject I have my guesses as to what you mean but would rather hear from you than put thoughts in your mind! :)

In LVX,

Christian

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You forgot the main question, Christian, "What is the meaning of Life?" I can only give answers to your questions that satisfy me.  I can't guarantee anyone else's satisfaction. 

Enlightenment, to me, is the increasing grasp of the reality of Unity behind the omnipresent appearance of separation. Paradox: the appearance of separation induces the perception of Unity. We are all students of Life by being subjected to the conditions thereof.

Cosmic Consciousness is actually experiencing that unity--to BEING all instead of thinking or believing you are.  A vast difference.  Its like being immersed and swimming in water rather than just reading about it. IMO, this state, CC, is impossible to anticipate by separated consciousness as the reality is like nothing you can compare it to. It is actually going from awareness of one thing to awareness of all things at once. Thanks for asking me to try. Also called Samadhi and Satori.  Known in many or all cultures by a few. Joseph

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What do you think causes the compression? Joseph

Desire meeting Limitation.

Like in a diesel engine, the Desire is the piston. The Limitation is the cylinder. No spark plug required!

RL

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Red Lion, I think the answer to what causes the compression was in your first response--"Do what you want." That involves both desire with limitation. I think you uttered wisdom that was beyond what you know., It happens. It will be interesting to see what response your post brings... Most won't get it. Joseph

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Joseph,

I would like to add a quote from Lobsang Lhalungpa to your discussion of enlightenment:

"Many people in the West do not understand that attaining enlightenment is not itself an end; it is only a beginning. The true task of helping others lies ahead. The Bodhisattva vow is, 'I do everything possible to achieve enlightenment so I can work to alleviate the suffering of all sentient beings, and help them to achieve their own enlightenment.' "

To me, this means the focus should not be on attaining a 'feather in the cap' for our individual egos, but that we should try to live our lives in the spirit of Charity, Compassion, etc.--whatever your B.S. (belief system) names it.

We are all aware, more or less, of the technical definitions of enlightenment. My personal definition at this time is: Perfect Love.

-Chris

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I want to comment on Lobsang's statement. He says that "enlightenment is not an end or goal, only a beginning." IMO it is not a beginning, only the continuation of an evolutionary process. I see "doing what you want' as the way to enlightenment as THE will, not Thy or My will, is obviously expressed in human "wants"--that selfish word. To some this will seem like blasphemy. To others it will stimulate exploration of our jail of interpretation

Lobsang's statement is "goal" oriented. "Process" orientation would seem to want to do the evolutionary thing in all circumstances without concern/attachments to the results--is this getting me closer to enlightenment or not?  Oriental transcendentalism is process oriented, terminally; goal oriented, to accommodate mass mind fix, at the beginning, IMO. Yes, i would say that perfect love is one of the evidences of perfect enlightenment being in place in human consciousness.  Can you name some other such behavior/attitude modifications that occur as enlightenment increases or do you see this as in incremental process? Joseph

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Lobsang Lhalungpa wrote:

> The Bodhisattva vow is, 'I do everything possible to achieve enlightenment so I can work to alleviate the suffering of all sentient beings, and help them to achieve their own enlightenment.'

This vow is for those who have not yet found enlightenment, but want to sound real holy. "Oh, Lord, if it be Thy Will that I should become a Bodhisattva, that I should become enlightened, then I will give your gift to all other beings, because I'm so humble and all."  Bull.

This comes from listening to a real Bodhisattva speak about what 'He wants', and then pretending to want that same thing - so to cultivate enlightenment. It is not necessary to take this vow, for one to become a Bodhisattva, nor would a Bodhisattva want anything else, but to work to enlighten all beings.

Noel.

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Noel, I love you. When i was being questioned by Ann about my readiness for chapter initiation, she asked me why I wanted initiation. "If I be lifted up, I will lift all others after me", I confidently said. Ann looked like she wanted to vomit, which took me several years to comprehend. Don't know why she let me in. The appearance of piety is easy to paint on with words and robes and with Holy goals to publicly espouse. Nothing abnormal about experiencing that phase of aspiration, at the beginning, but hopefully reality will set in and freedom to be one's self will set in and one will not need the appearance of spiritual elevation. One simply IS.  Joseph

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At 4:13 PM -0700 4/14/01, Joseph Nolen wrote: 

>I will say this and be done, Chris. My position, oft repeated, is that Samadhi, the beginning of enlightenment, is NOT attained, it is an unexpected and sudden gift, totally at the discretion of the Self.

An Easterner whom we both respect, Sri Aurobindo, wrote that once Samadhi is experienced, THEN the real work may begin. My understanding of his work is that much of it is geared toward directing the student toward Samadhi. There would seem to be some hint of attainment there.

Further, those who have discoursed directly on Raja Yoga list a series of steps (Yama, Niyama, &c) which lead to Samadhi. Again, there is a sense of working toward Samadhi, which from the personality POV would be an attainment.

z.

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Yes, after the mind blowing Samadhi event of "being the One" for minutes or hours, comes the work of integrating that Beingness into the very limited world of mass consciousness appearance, and as Paul says, the work of reversal of long held attitudes begins. "This is not as it appears" is always present in consciousness. IMO, Samadhi and what follows is unimaginable to unexperienced consciousness as nothing like it exists to compare it to in ordinary experience. I and others i have discussed this with, agree that there was some sort of subtle inner prepping for this but could not identify just what it consisted of. The possibility of human attainment of Samadhi seems to me to be negated by the very event, it is so other directed and unanticipated. As i have said, "doing what you want" IMO, is the best approach to Samadhi as your "wants" reflect THE will and Its Samadhi eventuation. The joke is that we can do nothing other than this. Our choosing always follows an evolutionary dictate. This is a Samadhi position and will not go down well with those still believe they are in control of their lives. Joke. An unlooked for side effect of having experienced Samadhi and having others know about it, is all your action are looked at and judged by what others think a person who has experienced Samadhi should think and do. We are impaled on their shoulds. I feel like i am laying my guts out on the ground before all of you, please be careful of where you step. Joseph

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Joseph..... I think this is one of your lovelier posts. Straight to the heart of the matter without the fluff. I like the part about folks tending to have an idea of what behavior would be considered proper..... once again, I think Mirth is in order!

Mary

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Your post gave me great pleasure, Mary. It surprises me how much "I" desire/want others to realize, from their own experience, the reality behind my statements. Your post massaged that desire which seems to be the constant left in my life at nearly 84 years and i definitely do not feel short changed by the Cosmic Disburser. Yes, Mirth seems to indicate an efficient evolutionary filtration system at work. It happens when "This is not as it seems" is plugged in. The awareness of not being in charge of your life or thinking you have to be is a major freedom. We laugh at how we are induced to build our own jail by false mandates of how we should think, feel and especially ACT, that are the subtle work of the Program Director Self--always leaving us the jail Key and eventually, the desire to use it.. You begin to live in expectation of further revelations of falseness. That same Key fits many doors. We both went to Asilomar with a script full of proper spiritual behavior actions, Mary. They were indeed self revealing when the Observer was on. "Falling in love with the Process" is often spoken of as a milestone on the Path, and IMO it relates to the slight discomfort of so-called negative self revelations (much greater at the beginning) and the subsequent realization of one's liberation from unconscious repetition of those patterns. Pleasure accompanied by pain--a real hooker? We seem to be creatures of pattern, Mary , and whatever experience that induces us to be more the Observer is a sheep in wolf's clothing. Joseph

Afterthought: Mirth is an indication of Self-awareness being present. Yours in addiction to aphorisms. Joseph

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Some time back, some list person asked for further information about the non-restriction of thought in the Tibetan Fast Path. There were many posts in the system at that time and i overlooked this question. I do not remember who asked about this and i am too lazy to hunt it down. So i answer to the pfc group.

This particular group of religious Tibetans see enlightenment as the result of an individualized sequence of thoughts and feelings. Similar to all, but exactly like no others. Man, normally, by cultural, political or religious dogma, tries to direct/restrict certain thoughts as improper, unworthy or just sinful. This Tibetan system says our thoughts reflect our wants/desires, which are given us to follow for our enlightenment. Ergo, if you have the intelligence to create a true frame of interpretation, i.e, reflecting the reality of the One, and non-identifying with the thoughts, the stability to continue the isolation necessary to the process, it may result in enlightenment.

Seems to work for some. As consciousness is extended in students here in the West, this non-restriction of thoughts seems to grow naturally as we learn that WE are not our thoughts. Haven't you noticed this? Joseph

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IMO, an enlightened state is more a condition of constant receptivity with sufficient reversal of conventionally accepted appearances in one's  mental format so one does not misinterpret what one observes.  Joseph

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That's a damned good definition, Joseph! I remember, a  while back, reading an interview where another scientist was questioning  Einstein about his unconventional thinking and scientific techniques and  Einstein replied almost the same thing [ as accounting for his  accomplishments]. I Also recall in the earlier BOTA lessons that it was  written that K12 was the most important key in the deck and the secret to  all occultism.  Kevin

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Interesting, Kevin.

I see the Hanged Man as being the perfect example of the Divine Paradox.

The power of 2 acting through the agency of 1. Receptivity in Action. Actively doing nothing. Doing and non-doing at the same time.

Now there's a paradox for you.

On a previous thread (several weeks ago) I saw K19 as symbolizing "enlightenment".

K5 - K12 - K19

Hypothesis: What manifests as "enlightenment" is the activity of adeptly getting out of the way (being receptive) so that the Inner Teacher's actings and doings through your personality are without obstruction.  In my experience, this receptivity is a natural state when one fully engages (concentrates) in a field of interest, but without being "attached" to results (or expectations, or preconceived notions).

A more accurate description might be to say that enlightenment is the state whereby the inner teacher has brought it's vehicle to a state of ripeness whereby it can reflect the Will of the teacher without obstruction.

So a "pre-enlightenment" point of view might say: Do what you want to do. Learn how to get out of the way if you want to.

A "post enlightenment" point of view might say: I'm not doing anything. Never have.

I think the error lies in trying to assume a "post-enlightenment" point of view when one is still pre-enlightened. The Kybalion calls this being "Half-Wise". One can't just jump the paradox. I think one must fully embrace the paradox in order to reconcile it. One must accept it - another word for this is SURRENDER (ego) to that which IS (K12).

Ain't doing nothing, and all this time I used to think I was just being lazy :-)

Weird part is, the more I forget myself, the more gets done, and the less it feels like work. This has been my actual experience at work. I go into the zone, and problems get solved, work gets done, and my colleagues think I am a highly effective problem solver. But inside I feel like I didn't do much at all, because it was almost effortless. The only times I suffer at work, is when I begin to get anxious about results.

If taken to it's logical conclusion the "don't worry, get more done" hypothesis could only mean:

I do nothing, and everything gets done!

Enlightenment, the lazy man's dream :-) Sort of like the humorous old saying:

"we have done so much for so long with so little that we are now qualified to do everything with nothing."

Here for list's amusement are several pre-enlightenment points of view of "enlightenment":

Enlightenment: (POV: Pride) I am Cool! I am God!
Enlightenment: (POV: Sloth) Kick back & let God do the work.
Enlightenment: (POV: Greed) Now everything is mine!
Enlightenment: (POV: Anger) Time to kick some serious butt!
Enlightenment: (POV: Envy) Now I got what I want!
Enlightenment: (POV: Lust) Now I got what I want, and then some!
Enlightenment: (POV: Gluttony) Now I can eat as much as I want and not get sick or fat! (no calories, no karma)

RL (lazy lion)

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Before this gets too far a field, here is the quote I made:

> I'm not a modest man. I'm enlightened - but not at a level where
> I can brag about it. I have a way to go, but I *Know* who I am.

I'm not claiming to be a Magus - I'm not in perfect identification with the One Life-Force - but I *Know* who I am.

My posts to this list will tell you who I am, because I keep telling everyone who You are - we're the same, the same ONE.

Why do I keep saying this?

Because it is my opinion that the answer to so many of the ancient mysteries is simply this - identification with the One. All the work before the level of Tiphareth, is preparation for the realization of Your true identity. All the work after that, is about how to use what You then *Know* to be true.

My work on this list has been to reinforce Your awareness of who and what You really are - to aid in Your realization. Some say that it isn't possible to instill that realization in another. Some say that my effort is in vain. Some say that I cannot help you crack open the cocoon and spread your wings, that I may only watch.

But I follow the example of PFC, who wrote the 'secret' again and again in his lessons. I follow the example of so many other teachers, who tell You, every time You open their works, that YOU are GOD.

Someday You will *Know* this to be true, not as just information, but as a living Truth that You will have experienced.